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Jason Teo

Turing Machines & Their Relevance to Modern Computing

Jason Teo
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rfindley
rfindley
11/15/2012 11:26:33 AM
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Re: Beyond Turing
It is sometimes difficult to think outside of the Von Neumann architecture of computers, where the distinction between 'instruction' and 'data' is clear.

One of the keys to understanding the brain is that the data *is* the instruction.  Sensory input in the brain is like water flowing down a mountain.  As the water flows, it carves streams.  The stream banks then 'instruct' water where to flow, yet the banks were carved by prior water.

So in a way, that is your 'evolving' instruction.

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Jason Teo
Jason Teo
11/15/2012 2:23:41 AM
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Re: Beyond Turing
@rfindley: you pointed out an interesting research area. Artificial intelligence was once a popular buzzword. Not sure if it still is. Whatever it is called, we are constantly looking at ways to use machines more efficiently and "intelligently". I look with anticipation at the evolution in this expert space. Just a thought, modern computer systems have instruction set architectures (ISA) that are engineered and fixed. Is there an evolving ISA? hmm...time to head for my Google...

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rfindley
rfindley
11/12/2012 10:38:16 AM
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Re: Beyond Turing
@Paul,

>> "conflicting core processors is why brains just aren't trusted with nuclear reactors"

This is only because our brains come preprogrammed with a whole set of parameters and principles that have nothing to do with running a nuclear reactor.

Intelligence need not be anything more than a form of advanced analysis (understand, analyze, report/act).  If you program an intelligent machine with the right parameters, it could do exactly what you ask -- the same as a person with the right parameters.  Those parameters should include failsafe procedures, just as employees are told to press the big red 'stop' button if something bad or unexpected happens.

If I were to ask, "Computer, how many Klingon ships can we destroy with a single Photon Torpedo", it could use its intelligence to understand, analyze, and answer without being trusted to make the decision to launch, or worry about whether the Klingons are good guys or not.

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Paul Clarke
Paul Clarke
11/12/2012 6:45:39 AM
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Re: Beyond Turing
I'm not certain myself that getting a design to think is really a good idea.?

Basing a design on something so dysfunctional as a brain that has evolved over millions of years seems like a bad starting point. We have parts of our brains that are computer like, then parts that are logical and calculate the best response based on past events and knowledge. But our emotional side runs off few know values, guess and makes mistakes. It's the part that drives feelings and ideas into the logical and computer part of our brains. This messed up system of conflicting core processors is why brains just aren't trusted with nuclear reactors for example! :o)

Understanding features like 'Learning' so something and test its self and score the result could be useful. But having things like this switched on when its running an important task adds risk. "Umm maybe I'll press the big red button and see what happens – opps, will not do that again!"

Should these systems fear for their own life? That normally adjust most brains into making better choices.

I think there is lots we know about the brain and in doing so makes me think that maybe its best off in a skull and not in a FPGA / Micro that had millions of trial and errors to get where it is today.

Our desire to create and be immortal may push things like computers that think – but until I'm proven otherwise, machines are machines, people are people and both are dangerous in the wrong hands.

Funny that here I am writting a Game Of Life simulator then.!?

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Myplanet
Myplanet
11/12/2012 2:26:36 AM
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Re: Beyond Turing
"It is said that knowledge of the brain is doubling every two years right now"

Rfindley, a new law like Moors law of computation (computational power gets doubled in every 18 months).  About the brain knowledge factor, whether the statement is supporting with any scientific studies.



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JezmoSSL
JezmoSSL
11/9/2012 6:28:17 PM
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Re: Beyond Turing
Well it was old doubty Descartes who suggested that everything was in fact an illusion,including his own existance.

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rfindley
rfindley
11/9/2012 6:11:02 PM
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Re: Beyond Turing
There are some very new and interesting theories about consciousness emerging in the last two years.  I've even seen one surprisingly convincing argument that consciousness is an illusion, in a manner similar to how an amputee can perceive a limb that is not there (though it's a bit more complicated than that).  The fact that it's not there means that your perception is not what you think it is.

Also, it is worth noting that consciousness is not necessarily an aspect of intelligence, though many do include it in their definition.

I suspect what we are likely to see is 'intelligence modules' that integrate with standard computers, which would provide all the usual precision.

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JezmoSSL
JezmoSSL
11/9/2012 5:51:51 PM
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Re: Beyond Turing
It's an interesting problem because nobody actually knows what causes consiousness, so saying wether the limits imposes by mathematical undesidability even apply or not is difficult, sorry I should say my beloved 'does' philosophy I get this all the time, try me I can prove that black is white and 1+1=3 for large enough values of 1 I should warn you that she can talk the hind legs off a donkey then persuade it to go for a walk

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rfindley
rfindley
11/9/2012 5:44:07 PM
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Beyond Turing
"Can our computing system evolve beyond the Turing Machine?"

The existence of the human brain seems to suggest that the answer is clearly "yes".  But how?  It's not easy... at least not yet.  In the not-so-distant past, the idea of electronic computers was incomprehensible... yet now they are ubiquitous.

It is said that knowledge of the brain is doubling every two years right now.  The last few years has revealed some very interesting clues, for those keen enough to discern them, about how intelligence works.  DARPA certainly seems to think so.  I think, perhaps, it won't be long before we start seeing basic "thinkers" instead of just "computers".

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JezmoSSL
JezmoSSL
11/9/2012 5:41:09 PM
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Re: Turing machine is the first computing model.
Alan Turing was what you call quite bright, sadly driven to suicide due to his homosexuality,he studied under Church and Wittgenstein who were also quite bright

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