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Warren Miller

FPGAs/MCUs: What Will the Future Look Like?

Warren Miller
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Bill White
Bill White
7/30/2012 1:52:28 AM
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Expert
Re: Hybrids
@jacek hanke-- you are right to be considering future engineers.  They will need to know how this is done in order to have a full, well-rounded knowledge.  In other words, I couldn't have skipped calculus and differential equations just because I have a fancy scientific calculator!

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William Murray
William Murray
7/28/2012 6:50:30 PM
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Blogger
Re: That would drive a new Paradigm to the DO-178/DO-254 Certification Split for FAA Certification
That and some of the configuration management artifacts of FPGA may not be in DO-178.

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William Murray
William Murray
7/28/2012 6:35:43 PM
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Re: That would drive a new Paradigm to the DO-178/DO-254 Certification Split for FAA Certification
The sticky part with the 178 only approach is re-use of existing VHDL/Verilog functions within the C/C++ -- 

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BarrieM
BarrieM
7/28/2012 6:25:57 PM
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Beginner
Re: That would drive a new Paradigm to the DO-178/DO-254 Certification Split for FAA Certification
Maybe it would be a new paradigm, or you could treat it like software (C/C++). Today you veryify the software but don't necessarily check the compiler, assembler & linker. If you move to an abstracted hardware modeling language like MatLab, Vivado HLS (a C to HDL tool) then should they be treated like a compiler?

They convert from one language to another using prefixed libraries and defined instructions - like a compiler. Synthesis, place and route are like the assembler and linker and maybe they should be looked at the same way. That is C code with a "differnet" compiler, assembler and linker. You may have an advantage because you can simulate the HDL and verify that the output is the same as the MatLab or C output, which is more difficult to do with assembly and C.

The times they are a changing - standards, coding guidelines, tools, methodologies, verification, software and hardware are all going to be impacted. It'll be interesting to see where we are 5 and 10 years from now !!

 

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William Murray
William Murray
7/28/2012 4:58:41 PM
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That would drive a new Paradigm to the DO-178/DO-254 Certification Split for FAA Certification
With DO-178 covering the software portions and DO-254 Covering the hardware portions -- One would have to go in and see what the tool mapped to what to certify it -- or develop a new unified paridigm.

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halherta
halherta
7/28/2012 4:29:16 PM
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Beginner
Re: Hybrids
Hybrids are the inevitable result of the objective of FPGA vendors which is to provide an alternative to ASICs in the low-mid volume market. ASICs typically consist of custom digital logic ( which in turn consists of glue logic, advanced digital circuitry for DSP and hardware Acceleration), a microprocessor, memory, and possibly some Analog and RF stuff. 

Pure FPGAs attempted to integrate the custom digital logic and uP found in ASICS by taking advantage of softcores such as Microblaze and NIOS I/II for over a decade now. These microprocessors where quite powerful and where implemented into the FPGA's fabric.

Now while softcores have advantages i.e. you can instantiate multiple cores on a large enough FPGA or instantiate only certain components of the needed core e.t.c, they had some severe disadvantages, basically their performance was limited by that of the FPGA fabric and they consumed significant amount of power. 


Integrating hardwired silicon based cores with FPGA fabric was the ultimate next step in the evolution of FPGAs. And yes while it was attempted before e.g. Altera Excalibur (ARM9), Xilinx Virtex-5/ PowerPC e.t.c. I think that it will probably gain more traction now than a decade ago. The FPSLIC is not as good an example as Xilinx's Virtex-5/PowerPC parts which were relatively successful in the market in the past

 

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Jacek Hanke
Jacek Hanke
7/26/2012 3:46:26 AM
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Re: Hybrids
Bingo! :) And then you hear: what do I need an assembler for, I have java :/

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hamster
hamster
7/26/2012 3:42:23 AM
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Re: Hybrids
No worse than current software people who use Perl and Java, not knowing a thing about assembler.

[yes, this is a bit of a leading comment... ]

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Jacek Hanke
Jacek Hanke
7/26/2012 2:42:09 AM
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Re: Hybrids
The whole idea looks pretty cool and should save our time. I agree with almost all pros and cons. But did you guys think about future engineers? I mean the one who'll be taking their lessons in few years time? Wouldn't they be "stunted" or "belated" - if the sofware make for them almost all the stuff, wouldn't they be some kind of "narrow specialists"?

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jg
jg
7/25/2012 11:54:36 PM
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Beginner
Re: Hybrids
 At first glance MCU + Programmable peripherals sounds sensible, but history is littered with those that tried  this, and found you can now have too many balls in the air.

 Atmel FPSLIC, was uC + FPGA, but the uC was constrained so customers had to need a uC, but not too large, and enough FPGA to wear the $$$ hike, but not too much of that either. End result is too few customers.

 Next came Triscend and again, the same combinations shrink the customer set,

 Now we have Cypress PSoC3/5, and Actel SmartFusion trying again.

 Cypress prices are high, and the Logic fabric is sadly rather slow, and meanwhile, companies like Lattice offered MachXO2, so a [Choice of Std Micro] + [Choice of MaxhXO2] is looking like lower prices, and much better performance.

 One thing Cypress did get right, is the wide Vcc operation.

 Xilinx side-stepped one variable, by avoiding microcontrollers, and chosing Arm9 and external code memory, and targeting LCD bridge style customers.

 The other approach many are quietly taking, is multi-core controllers, commonly asymmetric. NXP, Freeescale, Parallax, XMOS et al,  have offerings. This can give deterministic peripherals, and is project flexible.

 Then there are those who simply user more Microcontrollers. Checked how many uC are in your nearest vending machine, or car,  lately ?

 

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