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Jan Decaluwe

MyHDL: Modeling for Synthesis

Jan Decaluwe
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jandecaluwe
jandecaluwe
2/15/2013 7:57:11 AM
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Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
@Jezmo "Well my point is that it does encourage software people to take great lumps of code and try to produce hardware with it"

This makes no sense.

My views are crystal clear. Quoting from my Thinking software blog:

"The message here is not that hardware concerns don't matter. Instead, the message is that one must understand the capabilities of a synthesis tool, so that there is more time left for concerns that do matter."

The attitude that I'm advocating here is the opposite of the one you say I'm encouraging.

I don't know what drives you to make such comments, but it's definitely not a rational analysis of my views.

 

 

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cfelton
cfelton
2/11/2013 10:12:39 AM
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Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
@jezmo

As it is with high tech (at least in the states) I 
have worked for six different companies in 12 years
(only one switch was my choice) and that equates to
roughly 12 different managers. I have had a decent
sampling of managers. They vary greatly but none
were unreasonable in that they would read an article
like the ones mentioned and fire all their HW eng and
hire a bunch of web programmers. Also, it is cheaper
for them to keep the HW eng vs. hiring SW eng :)

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JezmoSSL
JezmoSSL
2/11/2013 10:02:05 AM
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Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
cfelton

You clearly have been lucky in not having to deal with managers who have been promoted because of who they know rather than what they know.I certainly know and have worked with managers who you would never dream of raising any technical issue with.

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cfelton
cfelton
2/11/2013 8:15:56 AM
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Guru
Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
"""
Well my point is that it does encourage software people
 
to take great lumps of code ...
"""

@jezmo Encourage? How? By simply mentioning the 
word software?

What you are talking about is not a technical issue 
but a political / personality issue. I guess, I have 
been shielded from such concerns? The managers I have
worked with have all been very bright and reasonable 
and they have all shown great trust in me. I would 
not have any issue debating topics like this and 
walking away knowing the managers and other team
members (however you want to label them) know what
can and cannot be accomplished with the tools and
techniques we have available.

I would not be afraid to present intriguing technical
content and definitely would not suppress technical
content and conversations, simply because someone
might misinterpret.

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JezmoSSL
JezmoSSL
2/10/2013 4:16:21 AM
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Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
Well my point is that it does encourage software people to take great lumps of code and try to produce hardware with it, and it does encourage dimwitted middle managers in their delusion that the world is driven by software.

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cfelton
cfelton
2/9/2013 9:50:07 PM
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Guru
Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
"""
well today i had the dubious pleasure of trying to get some HDL code written by a software guy to build and it was horrible.
"""

@jezmo, I think you are completely missing the point:

    SW Eng to HW Implemtation
        !=
    HW Eng utilizing SW techniques

This has been pointed out many times. No one is
suggesting converting globs of software to digital
hardware or magically taking someone from a different
domain expertise and making them a hardware eng. I
fail to see the relavance of your comment?

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Garcia-Lasheras
Garcia-Lasheras
2/9/2013 6:08:20 PM
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Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
@Jezmo: Of course, there are some other alternatives to using Linux in embedded systems... but it's worthy to consider which are the most advanced & used OS in embedded devices: Apple OS-X is based on UNIX (with a kernel derived from BSD project), while Google Android is based directly on Linux.

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JezmoSSL
JezmoSSL
2/9/2013 2:22:50 PM
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Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
And we had the old 'oh let's run Linux on it' to which I said 'there are other operating systems available'

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JezmoSSL
JezmoSSL
2/9/2013 1:00:24 PM
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Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
jan,you know you were talking about using HDls from a software prespective>

well today i had the dubious pleasure of trying to get some HDL code written by a software guy to build and it was horrible.

It didnt meet timing because everything was asyncronous, it infered arrays of registers rather than block ram, it had no pipelining, it used std_logic_vectors throughout, because it doesnt infer blockram where it should and instead uses registers it takes two hours to do the global placement and  the router gives up in disgust.

Oh and it uses latches rather than registers.

I looked at the code for him and told him it needs rewriting from scratch, which is why we dont want softies playing with stuff they dont understand,I had to expain to him why pipelining his design might help ease the timing requirements, and try to explain to him why latches are bad news was even more horrible.i know that Bob Elkind will tell that that in their places latches are a good thing, but not in FPGAs.

But this is what you get if you give no concideration to basic FPGA design principles.

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Garcia-Lasheras
Garcia-Lasheras
2/4/2013 11:06:01 AM
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Re: Python as a great language in which to write reference models
@Jan: "Python is an ideal language for reference models, VHDL/Verilog not at all"

I completely agree. I've spent the weekend playing with Python for DSP modelling & MyHDL for the hardware descriptions, and this is in fact a very powerful approach. In the same Python script, you can include high level "black-box" models and their simulations, but you can include too hardware description and testbench, directives to generate a Verilog/VHDL translation and even cosimulation wrappers.

By the way, all my doubts about MyHDL technical examples, licenses & terms of use have been solved after a deeper study of www.myhdl.org website. I'll give MyHDL a try ;-)


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More Blogs from Jan Decaluwe
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