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Steve Leibson

Xilinx of Mars: Image Processing for Curiosity's MAHLI Hand Camera

Steve Leibson
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Brian
Brian
3/8/2013 8:50:00 PM
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Re: Curious about Curiousity
 

@Steve: thanks for the video link!  Very cool!

 

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ab6vu
ab6vu
3/8/2013 12:52:11 PM
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Re: Curious about Curiousity
G-L,


No one knows.  It is theorized that these heavy ions at 99.999% the speed of light are thrown out by super novae, hyper-novae, and perhaps what is happening as super massive black holes suck gas into their event horizon.


As they seem to come from alkl directions, equally, we can not really tell their source.  They are influenced by gravity, magnetic and electric fields, so tracing one back is impossible.

 

Our sun boils off protons in great numbers, but these are not what spacecraft worry about.  A proton when it finally stops moving (collides with a silicon atom) liberates perhaps as much a 6 femto-coulombs.

The heavy ions of cosmic rays deposit enrgies in the range of 1 few pico coulombs, to perhaps micro coulombs.  1E-15 to 1E-9, to 1E-6...  That's a lot of energy!

That ultra high energy comsic ray had the energy of a baseball traveling at 60 MPH.  Doesn't sound like much until you think about all that energy stopping in your FPGA.

 

So solar protons = 6E-15 coulombs.  Cosmic Rays = ?????? !!!!!!!!

 

Austin

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Garcia-Lasheras
Garcia-Lasheras
3/8/2013 12:37:16 PM
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Re: Curious about Curiousity
@Austin: wow, thank you very much for the info, it's really fascinating!. Just one more question... where do all these heavy ions in space come from? They are part of the solar wind or  something more exotic comming from deep-space?

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ab6vu
ab6vu
3/8/2013 12:10:01 PM
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Re: Curious about Curiousity
G-L,


What CERN calls heavy ions, and what are known to be heavy ions in space (cosmic rays) are perhaps 1E6 different in energies....

It is all very impressive that CERN has GeV energies, but it is at a trivial levell when compared to the energies of cosmic rays in space.


The instruments are not exposed to the ion beam:  they are exposed to the occasional ion's secondaries as it hit something, and the spallation products come off the walls from the collision.  I have the charts, with all the particles that are expected within 1 meter of the beam.  I have the new CCD particle detector pictures showing the neutrons, protons, pions, etc.

 

The FPGA's at CERN don't get hit by the "heavy" ions (ever), they get hit by secondaries which consists of protons, neutrons, and many other exotic, but less energetic, particles (photons, neutrons, electrons, protons, pions -- in order of populations) at a flux that is about 2E6 times that of sea level in New York City.

 

The highest energies of these secondaries is about 1 GeV.

CERN is very impressive, but it cannot even begin to compare with "God's particle accelerator" -- space.

 

Designing for space is a completely different problem from designing for places here on earth, even at CERN! (I have done both)  If an airplane gets 600X as many neutrons as NYC, and CERN is 2E6 more neutrons, it is "just" a question of how often one gets upsets, nothing else is any different, just the rate of flips.


Space folks really do regard us terrestrial effects folks as children, playing with our children's toys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-energy_cosmic_ray

1E20 eV -- highest energy cosmic ray observed....compared to the 1E9 eV neutrons from CERN.  That is 100,000 million (1E11) times as much energy.

 

(Yes, I do this for a living, so I have all the charts, documents, test results, ....)

 

Austin

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Garcia-Lasheras
Garcia-Lasheras
3/8/2013 11:52:20 AM
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Re: Curious about Curiousity
@Austin: CERN is working in the LHC Heavy Ion research program, so maybe the scene is going to become worse for electronic systems.

I only know Javier Serrano from CERN. He doesn't work with Rad-Hard, but he is actively working with FPGAs. He and his team have launched the Open Hardware Repository & are working on a GPL-like license for PCB designs, the CERN-OHL.

Serrano's team is sharing the FPGA systems they have designed for CERN control systems. There are a lot of FMC design based on Xilinx devices in the repo, along with speciallizaed industrial network based designs.

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ab6vu
ab6vu
3/7/2013 5:31:40 PM
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Re: Curious about Curiousity
G-L,

At CERN (which has nothing to do with space -- it is 'just' neutrons and protons), we spent the last month operating 28nm 7 series in the beam test facility (new electronics test station) at CERN.


For detail, contact Mike Wirthlin at BYU, or Helio Takai at BNL, who supervised the work.

As wonderful (powerful) as CERN is, it is still many orders of magnitude less in energies than the primary cosmic ray (heavy ions) once you leave the earth.


We work just fine at CERN, and have in earlier technologies.  Upsets get corrected, and we continue to operate (using our SEM IP cores and our features).

http://www.xilinx.com/products/intellectual-property/SEM.htm

Unfortuantely, one of our competition also had some usage at CERN, and their parts have not met design goals (a polite way of sying they did not work).  They gave FPGA devices a very bad reputation, which may be valid for their parts, but is entirely inappropriate for Xilinx.

 

Our parts do not latch up, or suffer any hard failure from exposure to atmospheric (or CERN) neutrons.  Flips can be flipped back.  Simple find and fix, run twice and check methodologies are all that is required for most applications.  Only rarely do you have to triplicate and vote a critical piece of logic (practically never).

 

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Steve Leibson
Steve Leibson
3/7/2013 5:13:04 PM
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Re: Curious about Curiousity
@JezzmoSSL: error 404: Blogger not found. Please direct traffic to appropriate I/O port.

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Garcia-Lasheras
Garcia-Lasheras
3/7/2013 1:03:38 PM
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Re: Curious about Curiousity
@Adam, @Austin: Some years ago, I was interested in FPGA for aerospace systems and I attended to some Xilinx seminars in Madrid. But today Adam has discovered me! ;-)

I'm working with CERN in an open-hardware project as a volunteer in my spare time (I work for a private IP company in Spain) and some months ago I asked one of their technicians if they were using FPGAs inside the "particle collisions shock wave".

Nowadays, as far as I know, they are using RAM based FPGAs plus TMR and standard FLASH based FPGAs where radiation levels are high. They totally match with the "standard" space solution...

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Adam Taylor
Adam Taylor
3/7/2013 12:26:47 PM
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Re: Curious about Curiousity
I agree regarding the commercialisation of space, it is interesting to see how Space X are performing with their launchers and plans for the future.

Not many people realise the impact space can have in their lives, or the potential offshoots of those developments

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ab6vu
ab6vu
3/7/2013 12:19:50 PM
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Guru
Re: Curious about Curiousity
Adam,


I would applaud some modernization of the IATR rules, as I believe it is restricting progress for commercialization of space (my opinion).

Until the law changes, all references to space use of Xilinx components is handled by the A&D Marketing folks.

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